Below are copies of posts in regards to Aragron being breed again and has fathered more pups. Read it and weep.

http://members5.boardhost.com/corsoman/

Quote:

Posted by Annie on February 5, 2006, 8:07 am Good Morning, recently, I heard a few times that you bred one of your girl to Rustic's Aragorn... at the beginning I tought it was all false; who would like to breed their dog with Aragorn & get sick puppies?!? But, I still hear it... is it true? Thanks and have a nice day, Annie

Quote:

Re: Norm? is it true? Posted by President on February 5, 2006, 10:54 am, in reply to "Re: Norm? is it true?" No Annie, its true. But its no secret. I posted my desire to use either Aragorn or Strykker with Mona Lisa many months ago. I went with Aragorn. I had several studs to choose from but none came close in ability to Aragorn. You see Annie... I have seen Aragorn work a few times and know the dogs drive and temperament, and I made a concious decision to go ahead with it. I really dont think Aragorn has anything to do with the epi. Dont worry Annie everybody who will take a pup is fully informed about the "possibility" of epi but they accept the risk. Are you going to condemn me, condemn the new owners for a concious decision? I have 11 puppies right now 8 weeks old. They are what I thought the mating would be, spectacular. In fact I think its the best litter I have ever bred, and I have some pretty nice Corsos out there. As for Angela, I have changed my opinion about her as she has come clean and admitted to past mistakes and has vowed to never let bad breeding practices influence her again. This I find honorable, as most people who make mistakes will never admit it. I used to be more against Angela than all of you put together! and if I can find more positive in her than negative, and see that by treating her with a bit of respect has inspired her to want to do better, well thats much better than condemnation dont you think Annie? What would you have people do? hound her til the ends of the earth and force her into a bitter state of mind, or bring her amoungst a group of people that know of her past but also see a change of heart in her? What do you want Annie? to force her into the shadows or into the light? I didnt get positive results from bashing her and hating her and neither will you nor anybody else. You have to remember Annie there was a cult of one upmanship and cut-throat competition a few years ago. Everybody hated everybody else and did their best to bring down the other. Angela was only part of this picture, but she is the only one of this bunch that has admitted to her mistakes. This says something to me when all the others continue to be unethical and hide their movements. Back then nobody was united but now this has changed, and its not only myself that has seen major improvements in Angela. Under guidance and direction Angela has become a "model citizen". She does have extensive knowledge of the breeds and the lines and we think she will do much better with us than out there on her own. If you want to view her in a negative way this is your choice, but it would be my wish that you as well sit back and think about whats better, bringing her in as an equal and working with her.... or jumping on the "bash Angela wagon"? What will bring the most positive results Annie? Remember she was on her own before, she now has many people supporting her to do better in the future. With this kind of up-front honesty I hope you also will pause and think about this before you make an opinion. I think if people cannot find room to forgive someone who admits to past mistakes and wants to to better, then those people are no better. If my litters health is impeded, which I firmly believe will not happen, this is my problem as I approached Angela and not the other way around, and I assure you Annie that everyone involved knows the history, and are fully informed and prepared. Unlike last time there will be no surprises for anybody. NS Pres CPCC

Quote:

Posted by President on February 5, 2006, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Norm? is it true?" Annie your response was more positive than I anticipated. I cant speak for the reparations for you over those issues you mentioned but I will claim with confidence, that those issues are much more likely to be negotiated in time to your satisfaction in the future than at any time in the past. If this and more will come to pass everybody should show a little patience. I think this is one of the most difficult things Angela has ever done, and maybe if she is willing to do this to make ammends then give her a little room to try and succeed. Everybody makes bad choices and mistakes but only those who refuse to admit to them should be condemned. There are a few Corso breeders in Canada who still have epi in their dogs but you do not see them standing up like Angela to admit it and want to change it. That alone should allow her a little credit for doing the right thing. As for my pups future I have no doubt they will live long and healthy lives. As for informing all the new owners there is no new owners yet save those that are already spoken for, but when the time comes they will be told from A to Z what they have to know. btw Annie did the English Mastiff breeders of your new puppy tell you honestly that epi is also prevelent in that breed and your new pup also may run the risk of this also? I would hope they did to help you make an informed decision, but if they did not how does that make you feel? epi is very common with that breed, and indeed its increasing in all breeds, and even in mongrels now. epi cannot be tested for because they cant find any gene thats responsible for it. That leaves the door open to speculation and theory, and mine is is that it may have something to do with contaminated water or ground, pollution and the very wrong illigal dumping of toxic waste. The world is getting to be a poisoned place to be compared to the virgin and pure world of just a short time ago. With all the best genetic scientits scratching their heads over epi its logical to look elsewhere, and environment is the next target. I dont think personaly its genetic. There has never been anybody in living or recorded memory in my family of anybody having epi, but my little brother died from a grand mal seizure a few years back. He only had his first mild sezure a couple of years before so nobody knows what to think. Is it something he ate or drank? Was it a place he had visited? No one knows. All we know for sure is that nobody before in our family had ever had that happen. Julius Augustus Caesar himself was afflicted with the "twitches" and may himself could have died from it one day if not for his historic ending. I would very much be into a discussion by all the members and yourself Annie about epi and its possible causes as long as everybody remembers that there is no proof yet of its cause, so to blame somebody for causing it is illogical and will not be allowed. But lets theorize like crazy and see if we can put two and two together to come up with at least a plausable theory. NS Pres CPCC

Quote:

Posted by Annie on February 5, 2006, 3:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Norm? is it true?" Norm, nice that you are confident about your pup's health... but don't say it's not a genetic problem... if it is not genetics, why would all those corso's coming from Angela had epilepsy Don't start that theory about the water again... many of her dogs were born in different places and lived in different places, it's not the water! I had another dog at home and at 11yo her never had a seizure because of our water!! Don't throw statements like that... seems you think I am stupid!?? Norm, you know what? My experience with Angela bring me one positive point.... I learned not to trust everyone that looks ''Normal'' and learned that papers, championship & x-rays can be fake... so, when I researched for my new Mastiff puppy, it was a lot of work and a lot of research but it worths it. Yep, in every breed there a problems but not every breeder hides them. Every dog is at risk for epilepsy, like every human... but I will make the effort to buy a pup from a healthy pedigree just to put the more chances possible on his and my side. Since I met Angela, I am a better customer.

Quote:

Re: Norm? is it true? Posted by Tara Melito on February 5, 2006, 3:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Norm? is it true?" Norm, you are a disgrace to the CC world. I think I am going to get sick now... You and Angela are just the same, ignorant crooks... Im freakin speachless... Tara Melito and Cassie

Quote:

Re: Norm? is it true? Posted by Tara Melito on February 5, 2006, 3:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Norm? is it true?" Message modified by board administrator February 5, 2006, 6:58 pm I have deleted your comments Cassie because they are of a distasteful tone, and since you are not a member nor even have close to the same breed your participation is not very welcome. boardkeeper

_________________
Bon

b_doiron@yahoo.ca

Now, I will be banned...

Quote:

Re: Epilepsy, what is the cause? Posted by Annie on February 5, 2006, 10:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Epilepsy, what is the cause?" Patricia! my God! This statement literally drive me crazy! If I listen to them (& you), Epilepsy is not genetic and it should never stop anyone from breeding!!! What the hell!!! What will they do to the breed! Of course, if a dog had a brain tumor, it could have seizures... but when there's not... when 80% of the family has epilepsy.... could we call it genetic epilepsy PLEASE!?!!! These persons, for sure, dont understand epilepsy... and, for sure, have a really really low sense of ethics... I dont often use that kind of words but... they are idiot to still use these dogs. Norm, it is time to ban me, tell me I am not related to the board and that my comments are not welcome... you, just like Angela, are a pure idiot to still use Aragorn... and seems like you are putting your lies deeply in your members head ... 80% of sick dogs in a line and you claim it is not genetic! ... and, by ''idiot'', I don't mean innocent... you both know what you do... that you will ruin the breed in Canada, along with the others... but continue... just for the cash... Idiot! Link: http://truth-rustic.forumactif.com

_________________
Annie, moderator

I am sitting here reading this and I cannot believe what is being said!
Yeah, I am sure Angela is really really sorry for all the pain and suffering she caused with the health etrocities she created while taking our cash.

But you seem to forget, she is a f%#@ing crook, who began her whole breeding business ripping people off selling them unpapered dogs with FAKE health certificates in the first place.
thats all hunky dory and ok by you is it???? YOu bred to it!!!
It's not like she started out as some good breeder and got dealt a rough hand, and is now trying to help.She was lying from day 1!
You make it sound like these people here are 'out to get her' on some bashing spree, and enjoy harbouring feelings of hate.
Well, you are dead wrong, and that proves what a lowlife you must be to say such a thing.
Kind of reminds me of when she used to tell people that everybody was jealous of her, and don't listen to the nasty rumors, they just wish they had what she had -yeah I remember- she told me too-
or when she told me to keep my mouth shut and threatened to tell everyone that I was a druggie who abuses my dog.
Yeah..... that's the kind of thing decent people or "model citizens" do.

Aragorn produced my dog Fila, and I can tell you she is no shining star!
she has horrible angulation, grade 2 hip dysplasia, untrustworthy temperament (that she had from day 1), and absolutely no paperwork whatsoever.
Thats really something to strive for eh?

What has Angela done to make up for all of the shit she caused? NOTHING! Now you say she has turned a new leaf and we should all forgive her?
She has never asked any one of us for forgiveness for ripping us off! in fact most of us got told basically to F%@# off and don't try and contact her.
Forgive that? no way. she doesn't deserve it.

I am not a hateful person,and I am all for self improvement, but I will not sit here and say nothing when I see a load of crap like this being spewed.
I just hope the newcomers are not fooled.
I doubt ANY other breeder out there would join forces with Angela if they knew her track record. I guess birds of a feather flock together.

I'm done,
Lexie

What would even pocess a person to get involved with that woman and take a chance to breed to Aragorn. Even if the people that buy the pups are aware that they could come down with EPI it is just not right to condem puppies to a slow lingering death and heartbreak for the owners. Makes me want to puke.

Lexie I remember when Angela was spewing lies all over the internet about you being a dope fiend and she tried to blame you for Fila's condition. GRRRRRRRRRRRR

I quess Norm has forgotten about all the money Angela still owes people as well as Reg papers for their dogs and all the fake Pennhip Docs and fake pictures.

Info from Karen Peak on EPI (Cross post from MBH board).

http://b5.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1139241217&user=mbh3

Quote:

if they are claiming it is not genetic... scary if true... info on it Posted on 2/6/2006 at 10:53:37 by Karen Epilepsy has a genetic component (there are many causes of canine seizures) and this is why my mother ended a lovely line - epilepsy showed up and was passed on. And it was atypical in onset ahe - later than average. The first dog with seizures was not considered epileptic because it happened afetr head trauma (she decided to chase a squirrel or something and slid under a second story deck rail (only a few inches off the deck too - she tried HARD). But what it is assumed now was that was a coinicidence. As soon as it was discovered in the line, all animals were altered, all owners called and this branch of that line ended 100%. There are Terv breeders who make show homes sign contracts stating no breeding of the dog before 4 years old as this is the average age of onset for seizures if it is canine seizure disorder. But once a dog seizes and there is no external possible cause such as injury or illness, the dog should be considered affected and not allowed to reproduce. Any unaffected relatives need to be watched and bred extremely carefully until more about the genetics is known. And in response to what happened years ago with our first dogs, we sent in DNA samples of affected and unaffected animals in the line to VetGen for part of an epilepsy study going on that included Shelties. After years of working with a lovely line, it was a case of a breeding to one dog that put the genes together in the right way - my family started all over again with different lines. Epilepsy(better term is canine seuzure disorder as it covers epilepsy and other issues causing seizures) can be genetic. http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/ http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/dnaresearch.html http://www.vetgen.com/epilepsy.html Replies:

_________________
Bon

b_doiron@yahoo.ca